Relationship between distance and handicap

stash1832 Professional Champion
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Is it possible to be a scratch golfer but you're unable to play from the tips? Or does a player just gain more distance as their handicap lowers? I'm a short hitter and I've been playing for a couple of years and can't imagine gaining enough distance to play from the tips at some places (6900-7300 yds). Right now, I feel comfortable playing courses between 5900 and 6400 yards.
Robert Premeaux Jr. Professional Champion
# 16 7/26/2011 11:49:58 PM
You're both right. Wasn't thinking that through properly. No problem, and you're definitely right about thist: Most "scratch" golfers DO play the back tees. Generally if you're that good, you're good enough to handle the distance. Of course, then there's some of the Robert Trent Jones Trail courses, some of which have tips that top 8,000 yards. Even the club pro at Cambrian Ridge said he doesn't play the tips there (I did and shot a smooth 99; it was carnage everywhere). As for stash's original question, don't sweat distance for now. If you've only been playing for a couple of years, just keep playing. Eventually you might find enough distance to move back. If not, who cares? Having fun matters more than anything else.
Mark Simmons Legend
# 17 7/27/2011 1:18:08 AM
Distance INFLUENCES your handicap, it does not define it. As Tim said, look at Cory fricken Pavin, or Justin Leonard, or or or. They are all scoring better than John Daly who can still bomb it. Short game is still half the game and certainly influences handicap. Some players can get it close from 200 yards out more often than most players can from 100-150 yards. That too influences handicap. The point is you can't accurately assess a person's handicap using a one factor analysis.
MikeNomgi Professional Champion
# 18 7/27/2011 4:02:05 AM
I Distance and handicap go hand-in-hand for most of us. But by "distance", I mean specifically the distance which you can still maintain control of your golf ball. The better I've gotten, the more control I have over my shots, so my distance counts for more than when I had less control. Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. I can hit my 8-iron 180 yards. But I can only hit my 8-iron with confidence I'll put it within 25 ft of the pin from 145 yards. After that, it's a crapshoot.
MikeNomgi Professional Champion
# 19 7/27/2011 4:04:59 AM
Don't the tee boxes set up for different handicaps. Like my course "scratch" players are advised to play the second to last tee box. You have to have a + handicap to play the PGATour tees and be approved by the head pro. So in my opinion if your "scratch" then you should be playing from the back tees. But i may be wrong. "Scratch" has nothing to do with what tees you play from. It has to do with what you score. But if you define "scratch" as a 0 handicap player, then just shooting even par from regular tees likely wouldn't be enough to make you a true "scratch". Like I said, I'd have to shoot 3 or 4 under from the regular tees at one of my home courses to get to a 0 handicap. Scratch is defined as a person with a 0 or better handicap. And so if tees are divided by handicaps than it has everything to do with what tees you play from. I could probably have a smaller handicap if i played from the senior tees. :) I think you're misunderstanding how handicap works. . You're from Texas. You should know the correct form of the word is "misunderestimating".
MikeNomgi Professional Champion
# 20 7/27/2011 4:10:23 AM
Distance INFLUENCES your handicap, it does not define it. As Tim said, look at Cory fricken Pavin, or Justin Leonard, or or or. They are all scoring better than John Daly who can still bomb it. Short game is still half the game and certainly influences handicap. Some players can get it close from 200 yards out more often than most players can from 100-150 yards. That too influences handicap. The point is you can't accurately assess a person's handicap using a one factor analysis. There's a guy at my club, probably about 70 yrs old, who's a 6-handicap. He hits the ball about 200 off the tee, and can't reach any par 4 400 yds or longer. But he gets it close, then up and in more often than not. It's both frustrating and awe-inspiring to play against him in a tournament when he beats you 4 and 3.
bmoody16 Professional Champion
# 21 7/27/2011 11:43:19 AM
I agree with that, Tim. In my experience, I find many, maybe most recreational golfers (like us) think they hit the ball further than they actually do. I agree...I can hit the ball pretty well, and I occasionally play with someone who can hit it further than I do (but not often). My best drives (not aided by wind or firm fairways) max out at about 290. I played with a guy the other day who hit it 324 and another guy who hit it 300. They were absolutely smashing the ball! All of us shoot in the 70's with some regularity. 1. Most guys do not factor in that they are cutting corners. For example, I drove the green on a hole that was supposedly 335, but in reality cutting the corner it was only 275! 2. Tee boxes are often off from the marked distance on a scorecard. The only way to really know distance is by using a GPS of some kind. 3. People fib. There are a lot of decent golfers like myself, who hit the ball hard, and still struggle to hit 300 yard drives. I basically can only do it with a strong wind, good hill, or firm fairways. So guys who struggle to break 100 saying they hit the ball 300+ yards is very questionable (it is likely not happening).
Mark Simmons Legend
# 22 7/27/2011 10:07:49 PM
3. People fib. There are a lot of decent golfers like myself, who hit the ball hard, and still struggle to hit 300 yard drives. I basically can only do it with a strong wind, good hill, or firm fairways. So guys who struggle to break 100 saying they hit the ball 300+ yards is very questionable (it is likely not happening). I think it's mostly that one.
dysangel Professional Champion
# 23 7/28/2011 9:49:54 AM
There's a guy at my club, probably about 70 yrs old, who's a 6-handicap. He hits the ball about 200 off the tee, and can't reach any par 4 400 yds or longer. But he gets it close, then up and in more often than not. It's both frustrating and awe-inspiring to play against him in a tournament when he beats you 4 and 3. Great point. It's all about playing smart. People of my ability think they have to bomb it, and some can, right into the crap. I currently have a 29.1 index, yeah I know. Anyway, if I am playing for fun, or trying to work on my game, then I hit driver quite a bit. My drives sometimes reach 240 and sometimes are in the fairway. But if i'm playing in a match, I rarely hit driver unless it's a wide open par 5. I hit my 5 iron 155 to 165 and it's usually straight. That means, in theory, I can be on most any par 4 in 3 shots. A 2 putt and I'm playing bogie golf.
Nikhil Nayak Professional Champion
# 24 7/28/2011 10:03:34 AM
I'll say that, if anything, going for distance adversely affects your handicap. If you want to reduce your handicap you have to improve your accuracy. Most long hitters end up in bad positions for their next shot when they are not accurate. That said, if you're money with the long stick then you're looking at nice easy wedges into greens. Does it happen ... not likely. The key here is "handicap" or your average score over several rounds. A game that's accurate is a better game to have under pressure. Its definitely not the game most like to play but just keeping the ball away from trouble will keep your scores lower on average.
bmoody16 Professional Champion
# 25 7/29/2011 10:01:42 PM
Don't the tee boxes set up for different handicaps. Like my course "scratch" players are advised to play the second to last tee box. You have to have a + handicap to play the PGATour tees and be approved by the head pro. So in my opinion if your "scratch" then you should be playing from the back tees. But i may be wrong. "Scratch" has nothing to do with what tees you play from. It has to do with what you score. But if you define "scratch" as a 0 handicap player, then just shooting even par from regular tees likely wouldn't be enough to make you a true "scratch". Like I said, I'd have to shoot 3 or 4 under from the regular tees at one of my home courses to get to a 0 handicap. Handicap measures your potential, so if you were shooting par or better (even if the rating was 71 or so) you would probably still have a handicap of 0. Its a standard deviation that is then multiplied by a number less than 1. This factors in for potential. Ideally if you were shooting rounds with a positive differential on any kind of regular basis, your Handicap would at least be 0 or even in the + range.

stash1832

Professional Champion

Go to Last Reply

195 Views 25 Replies 3 Likes

Is it possible to be a scratch golfer but you're unable to play from the tips? Or does a player just gain more distance as their handicap lowers?

I'm a short hitter and I've been playing for a couple of years and can't imagine gaining enough distance to play from the tips at some places (6900-7300 yds). Right now, I feel comfortable playing courses between 5900 and 6400 yards.

Robert Premeaux Jr.

Professional Champion

# 16 7/26/2011 11:49:58 PM

You're both right. Wasn't thinking that through properly.

No problem, and you're definitely right about thist: Most "scratch" golfers DO play the back tees. Generally if you're that good, you're good enough to handle the distance.

Of course, then there's some of the Robert Trent Jones Trail courses, some of which have tips that top 8,000 yards. Even the club pro at Cambrian Ridge said he doesn't play the tips there (I did and shot a smooth 99; it was carnage everywhere).

As for stash's original question, don't sweat distance for now. If you've only been playing for a couple of years, just keep playing. Eventually you might find enough distance to move back. If not, who cares? Having fun matters more than anything else.

Mark Simmons

Legend

# 17 7/27/2011 1:18:08 AM

Distance INFLUENCES your handicap, it does not define it.

As Tim said, look at Cory fricken Pavin, or Justin Leonard, or or or. They are all scoring better than John Daly who can still bomb it.

Short game is still half the game and certainly influences handicap. Some players can get it close from 200 yards out more often than most players can from 100-150 yards. That too influences handicap.

The point is you can't accurately assess a person's handicap using a one factor analysis.

MikeNomgi

Professional Champion

# 18 7/27/2011 4:02:05 AM

I Distance and handicap go hand-in-hand for most of us. But by "distance", I mean specifically the distance which you can still maintain control of your golf ball. The better I've gotten, the more control I have over my shots, so my distance counts for more than when I had less control.

Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense. I can hit my 8-iron 180 yards. But I can only hit my 8-iron with confidence I'll put it within 25 ft of the pin from 145 yards. After that, it's a crapshoot.

MikeNomgi

Professional Champion

# 19 7/27/2011 4:04:59 AM

Don't the tee boxes set up for different handicaps. Like my course "scratch" players are advised to play the second to last tee box. You have to have a + handicap to play the PGATour tees and be approved by the head pro. So in my opinion if your "scratch" then you should be playing from the back tees. But i may be wrong.

"Scratch" has nothing to do with what tees you play from. It has to do with what you score.

But if you define "scratch" as a 0 handicap player, then just shooting even par from regular tees likely wouldn't be enough to make you a true "scratch". Like I said, I'd have to shoot 3 or 4 under from the regular tees at one of my home courses to get to a 0 handicap.

Scratch is defined as a person with a 0 or better handicap. And so if tees are divided by handicaps than it has everything to do with what tees you play from. I could probably have a smaller handicap if i played from the senior tees. :)

I think you're misunderstanding how handicap works.

.

You're from Texas. You should know the correct form of the word is "misunderestimating".

MikeNomgi

Professional Champion

# 20 7/27/2011 4:10:23 AM

Distance INFLUENCES your handicap, it does not define it.

As Tim said, look at Cory fricken Pavin, or Justin Leonard, or or or. They are all scoring better than John Daly who can still bomb it.

Short game is still half the game and certainly influences handicap. Some players can get it close from 200 yards out more often than most players can from 100-150 yards. That too influences handicap.

The point is you can't accurately assess a person's handicap using a one factor analysis.

There's a guy at my club, probably about 70 yrs old, who's a 6-handicap. He hits the ball about 200 off the tee, and can't reach any par 4 400 yds or longer. But he gets it close, then up and in more often than not. It's both frustrating and awe-inspiring to play against him in a tournament when he beats you 4 and 3.

bmoody16

Professional Champion

# 21 7/27/2011 11:43:19 AM

I agree with that, Tim. In my experience, I find many, maybe most recreational golfers (like us) think they hit the ball further than they actually do.

I agree...I can hit the ball pretty well, and I occasionally play with someone who can hit it further than I do (but not often). My best drives (not aided by wind or firm fairways) max out at about 290. I played with a guy the other day who hit it 324 and another guy who hit it 300. They were absolutely smashing the ball! All of us shoot in the 70's with some regularity.

1. Most guys do not factor in that they are cutting corners. For example, I drove the green on a hole that was supposedly 335, but in reality cutting the corner it was only 275!

2. Tee boxes are often off from the marked distance on a scorecard. The only way to really know distance is by using a GPS of some kind.

3. People fib. There are a lot of decent golfers like myself, who hit the ball hard, and still struggle to hit 300 yard drives. I basically can only do it with a strong wind, good hill, or firm fairways. So guys who struggle to break 100 saying they hit the ball 300+ yards is very questionable (it is likely not happening).

Mark Simmons

Legend

# 22 7/27/2011 10:07:49 PM

3. People fib. There are a lot of decent golfers like myself, who hit the ball hard, and still struggle to hit 300 yard drives. I basically can only do it with a strong wind, good hill, or firm fairways. So guys who struggle to break 100 saying they hit the ball 300+ yards is very questionable (it is likely not happening).

I think it's mostly that one.

dysangel

Professional Champion

# 23 7/28/2011 9:49:54 AM

There's a guy at my club, probably about 70 yrs old, who's a 6-handicap. He hits the ball about 200 off the tee, and can't reach any par 4 400 yds or longer. But he gets it close, then up and in more often than not. It's both frustrating and awe-inspiring to play against him in a tournament when he beats you 4 and 3.

Great point. It's all about playing smart.

People of my ability think they have to bomb it, and some can, right into the crap.
I currently have a 29.1 index, yeah I know.

Anyway, if I am playing for fun, or trying to work on my game, then I hit driver quite a bit. My drives sometimes reach 240 and sometimes are in the fairway.

But if i'm playing in a match, I rarely hit driver unless it's a wide open par 5.

I hit my 5 iron 155 to 165 and it's usually straight. That means, in theory, I can be on most any par 4 in 3 shots. A 2 putt and I'm playing bogie golf.

Nikhil Nayak

Professional Champion

# 24 7/28/2011 10:03:34 AM

I'll say that, if anything, going for distance adversely affects your handicap. If you want to reduce your handicap you have to improve your accuracy. Most long hitters end up in bad positions for their next shot when they are not accurate. That said, if you're money with the long stick then you're looking at nice easy wedges into greens. Does it happen ... not likely.

The key here is "handicap" or your average score over several rounds. A game that's accurate is a better game to have under pressure. Its definitely not the game most like to play but just keeping the ball away from trouble will keep your scores lower on average.

bmoody16

Professional Champion

# 25 7/29/2011 10:01:42 PM

Don't the tee boxes set up for different handicaps. Like my course "scratch" players are advised to play the second to last tee box. You have to have a + handicap to play the PGATour tees and be approved by the head pro. So in my opinion if your "scratch" then you should be playing from the back tees. But i may be wrong.

"Scratch" has nothing to do with what tees you play from. It has to do with what you score.

But if you define "scratch" as a 0 handicap player, then just shooting even par from regular tees likely wouldn't be enough to make you a true "scratch". Like I said, I'd have to shoot 3 or 4 under from the regular tees at one of my home courses to get to a 0 handicap.

Handicap measures your potential, so if you were shooting par or better (even if the rating was 71 or so) you would probably still have a handicap of 0. Its a standard deviation that is then multiplied by a number less than 1. This factors in for potential. Ideally if you were shooting rounds with a positive differential on any kind of regular basis, your Handicap would at least be 0 or even in the + range.

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