COMMUNITY

Hitting it longer certainly helps you have shorter clubs into the green, which in turn can help you hit it tighter to the pin and have lower overall scores...

Here's the USGA definition of 'scratch': "An amateur player who plays to the standard of the stroke play qualifiers competing in the United States Amateur Championship. The male scratch golfer hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots. The female scratch golfer can hit her tee shots an average of 210 yards and can reach a 400-yard hole in two shots."

250 isn't really a long whack by most folks' standards.

And honestly, if you're a good enough player, it doesn't matter what tees you play from. Case in point: Corey freakin' Pavin.

Maybe not long by most scratch golfers standards, but certainly long by most folks standards.

I bet if you stood on the first tee of almost every golf course in the world for a day and measured every drive, you wouldn't have 10% of players hitting their ball 250+.

Well that's not necessarily how I meant it. We hear day in day out about how Tour players are whacking it 350 yards at every event. So yeah 250 is getting it out there, most people would love to hit it that far, but in comparison to what most people think is "long" these days, 250 isn't much.

I agree with that, Tim. In my experience, I find many, maybe most recreational golfers (like us) think they hit the ball further than they actually do.

Seriously, most guys tell you how they hit it 300, then you see them barely poke it 240 (and in the weeds).

Distance and handicap go hand-in-hand for most of us. But by "distance", I mean specifically the distance which you can still maintain control of your golf ball. The better I've gotten, the more control I have over my shots, so my distance counts for more than when I had less control.

Does that make sense?

You can get to a 1 or 0 handicap playing shorter tees, but you have to shoot much better scores to do it. At one of my home courses, I can shoot 1-over 72 from the tips and it counts for a 1.5 on my handicap. I'd have to shoot 3 or 4 under par (68 or 67) from the regular tees to get that same 1.5.

If you can do that, then distance doesn't matter so much. I think.

I understand mathematically, you can get to a 1 or 0 handicap playing the middle tees. But, practically, if you know you can't score that from the tips, are you really "scratch"?

Just think about it. If you're driving the ball 250 (which is the average), you're gonna have a 220 yard club into the 470 yd green described. That's likely a 3 wood for most players driving the ball 250.

Also, there's a thread about scorecards and matching certain tees with handicaps. The lower handicaps play the tips according to the suggestions.

If you shoot par or equal to the course rating you will be a scratch golfer regardless of which tees you play from.

Yes you are really "scratch".

"Scratch" is a misused word to the point that I disregard it when anybody mentions it. Tell me what their actual handicap is. 1? 2? Plus 2? Those mean something to me. Half the people using the word "scratch" are the same morons who tell me they drive the ball 300 off every tee.

I grew up thinking "scratch" meant "able to shoot par every time out." But like I say, it is a meaningless word these days.

Don't the tee boxes set up for different handicaps. Like my course "scratch" players are advised to play the second to last tee box. You have to have a + handicap to play the PGATour tees and be approved by the head pro. So in my opinion if your "scratch" then you should be playing from the back tees. But i may be wrong.

"Scratch" has nothing to do with what tees you play from. It has to do with what you score.

But if you define "scratch" as a 0 handicap player, then just shooting even par from regular tees likely wouldn't be enough to make you a true "scratch". Like I said, I'd have to shoot 3 or 4 under from the regular tees at one of my home courses to get to a 0 handicap.

Scratch is defined as a person with a 0 or better handicap. And so if tees are divided by handicaps than it has everything to do with what tees you play from. I could probably have a smaller handicap if i played from the senior tees. :)

I think you're misunderstanding how handicap works.

If you shoot an 80 at a course from a set of tees rated 75 with a slope of 150 (real hard), it would count as a 3.8 on your handicap. If the course was par 72, that means 8 over counts as less than 4 over.

If you shoot 80 at that same course from senior tees rated 69 with a slope of 125 (much, much easier), it would count as a 9.9 on your handicap. So 8 over from the senior tees would count as almost 10 over.

So playing the senior tees would very much hurt your handicap unless you can score a whole lot better from those tees.

You would have lower scores and lower par differential, but most likely your Handicap would be about the same. Say from the tips (7400) I shoot 90, but the rating is 77 and the slope is 145, your handicap differential will be about 10. If playing from the white (5800) I shoot 80 but the rating is 69 and the slope is 113 your handicap differential will be about 11.

You're both right. Wasn't thinking that through properly.