What if | USHandicap Classic

PISC Legend
Go to Last Reply 219 Views 29 Replies 3 Likes
All the tours in the USA combined into one tour. "THE GOLF TOUR" Each tournament has three sets of tee boxes for mens, ladies and seniors. Hmmmmmmmmmmm what do you think?
heartotexas Professional Champion
# 16 6/3/2011 3:08:38 PM
Well, I'm gonna go against the grain here and say I like the idea. I've actually mentioned or suggested it in the past. They would have to increase the field dramatically, since there are a lot of really good players in all three categories. I think the issue here would be that the PGA Tour players would be all offended if a woman or senior started beating their pants off. Their ego's won't let their little boys club get invaded like that. The "Wendy's 3 Tour Challenge" is hardly a comparison by any stretch with what is being suggested here since it more like a scramble than a stroke play event. I want to see "head to head" competition, from appropriate distances, on the same course, same conditions. The Wendy's Challenge is nothing like a scramble. It is a stroke play event, with the cumulative scores determining the winner. There has been one recent change; each team throws out the highest score of each hole. Each team has had their share of wins over the years. And the PGA players have not refused to come back the following year because their ego's were hurt. Check out the scoring averages of the three tours. Keep in mind the PGA Tour course setups are more difficult than the Champions Tour and LPGA setups. As much as I enjoy women's golf, they would not be competitive with the PGA Tour week in and week out. Mike its still not head to head. Put the men on the tips, women on the whatever and senior on the whatever tees, and have them compete stroke play. When they do that and the women and senior can't keep up, Ill believe it. Until then its not apples to apples, its apples to hybrid oranges or something that happens in the Wendys challenge.
heartotexas Professional Champion
# 17 6/3/2011 3:11:59 PM
One real big problem would be that the field from each level would be cut into a third of what it would normally be. Most of the guys on the tour fight from week to week just to be able to play anyways. This would just complicate things even more. They push to get every one through already and if the fields were larger, they would really be hurting to make up time from weather delays and stuff like that. I could see it only being done once or twice a year and they would prolly have to limit the field to invite only. And how the do the cut would be even more of a problem. My suggestion in the past was to take the top 50 of each tour, that's a field of 150 which I think is about the same as day 1 of a PGA tour event field.
JohnBarree Professional Champion
# 18 6/3/2011 5:40:12 PM
I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them.
MikeNomgi Professional Champion
# 19 6/3/2011 7:43:33 PM
One real big problem would be that the field from each level would be cut into a third of what it would normally be. Most of the guys on the tour fight from week to week just to be able to play anyways. This would just complicate things even more. They push to get every one through already and if the fields were larger, they would really be hurting to make up time from weather delays and stuff like that. I could see it only being done once or twice a year and they would prolly have to limit the field to invite only. And how the do the cut would be even more of a problem. My suggestion in the past was to take the top 50 of each tour, that's a field of 150 which I think is about the same as day 1 of a PGA tour event field. Right. The typical non-invitational PGA Tour event field is 156.
MikeNomgi Professional Champion
# 20 6/3/2011 7:55:07 PM
I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them. Well, I've told many new golfers to forget about watching PGA Tour players to learn the game, but rather, watch the LPGA players. Most of us have the swing speed of a Paula Creamer than a Dustin Johnson. And remember; Annika's average swing speed when she was in her prime was 96 MPH and she averaged over 265 off the tee. A clubhead speed of 114 MPH does nothing for you if you make contact on the clubface an inch off the sweet spot. Tempo, baby. Tempo! And the girls sure have it. When my wife and I are paired up with men who we haven't played with before, they can't stop talking about how good her swing is. She's not long; 175-180 off the tee (swing speed about 85 mph), but almost always in the middle of the fairway with a 3 or 4 yard draw. And the tempo is just incredible.
Robert Premeaux Jr. Professional Champion
# 21 6/3/2011 8:04:30 PM
Apples vs. oranges vs. pears? That sounds fair.
LukeTuzinski Professional Champion
# 22 6/3/2011 11:51:17 PM
I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them. One of the main reasons I don't watch either of these on TV,is that the production values especially on LPGA events is absolutely atrocious. It's like watching an NFL game and then watching the local cable broadcast of high school football.
Robert Premeaux Jr. Professional Champion
# 23 6/4/2011 12:19:28 AM
I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them. One of the main reasons I don't watch either of these on TV,is that the production values especially on LPGA events is absolutely atrocious. It's like watching an NFL game and then watching the local cable broadcast of high school football. No doubt. I actually enjoyed watching Paula Creamer win at Oakmont last year, and it was in part due to the fact that NBC had the A team doing the broadcast. It felt like real golf with those guys on the job. That's the only LPGA broadcast I've watched in 23 years of watching golf on TV.
armygrunt47 Professional Champion
# 24 6/7/2011 2:36:02 PM
The PGA Tour has many daily fee courses at which it plays tournaments. Cog Hill. Pebble Beach. TPC Sawgrass. Kapalua. Doral. The Greenbriar. La Quinta. Torrey Pines. TPC Scottsdale. PGA National. Innisbrook. Harbour Town. TPC Louisiana, and probably more. That's a pretty good selection to choose from. I don't think the TPC's or Kapalua are quite what I had in mind. Cog Hill, The Greenbriar, Turning Stone, come closer. I'm aware the tour plays on courses that are nominally "public". I was thinking more along the lines of a course perhaps without the prestige or the price tag of those you've mentioned. Of course, quite a few of the Nationwide events are held on this kind of course as well as many of the Open qualifiers. It wouldn't be an every week thing, but maybe let a few qualified courses bid for one slot a year. Or maybe let the public have a vote or nominate a local course. The Turning Stone Resort tournament has been dropped. Too bad. It's a good course (The Atunyote). I've been meaning to get out there for a few days since it's only about 5 hours away. It's pricey though. I think it's $250 to play the Atunyote and $175 to $200 for the other three. And I almost always travel with my wife so it's cost times 2 per round. Bethpage is the only "public" course that just about anyone can afford ($75 in-State, $150 out-State for weekends). Torrey Pines is $235 for out-State and $135 for in-County. Pebble is $495 (not including cart). And Pinehurst averages $320. Sure they are "public" but how public is it when most can't afford it? Of course these are some of the more prestigious courses but even most TPCs are $250+. This is why golf is not growing. Just too darn expensive. And back to topic, I wouldn't want to watch a combined tour. But I do enjoy watching the ladies and the Seniors more sometimes because there are definitely a lot less "whiners" there. No need to see grown men complaining on TV. See enough of that on the weekends. From my last check, Pinehurst was $176 and that was with a caddy.
armygrunt47 Professional Champion
# 25 6/7/2011 3:54:52 PM
From my last check, Pinehurst was $176 and that was with a caddy. Really? I just checked the website and peak season was $385. Oh, and I'm only talking about Pine Hurst #2. The others do not host US Opens or other PGA tourneys from what I know. I live less than an hour from the course. #2 and # 8 have hosted PGA tourneys. They may have went up after remodeling the course last year but I am pretty sure it was 176 because we were going to do a 3 day two night golf package and play #2, Tobacco RD, and Pine Needles.
OtterMan08 Legend
# 26 6/7/2011 4:04:28 PM
From my last check, Pinehurst was $176 and that was with a caddy. Really? I just checked the website and peak season was $385. Oh, and I'm only talking about Pine Hurst #2. The others do not host US Opens or other PGA tourneys from what I know. I live less than an hour from the course. #2 and # 8 have hosted PGA tourneys. They may have went up after remodeling the course last year but I am pretty sure it was 176 because we were going to do a 3 day two night golf package and play #2, Tobacco RD, and Pine Needles. I have noticed that many resort style courses post an outrageous "day rate" but offer much better package rates. Kind of makes it difficult to compare "Apples to Apples". It's like "Yeah, we'll let you play, But... we'll make it easier if you stay here or buy the package deal or whatever".

Legend

219 Views 29 Replies 3 Likes

All the tours in the USA combined into one tour. "THE GOLF TOUR"
Each tournament has three sets of tee boxes for mens, ladies and seniors.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm what do you think?

heartotexas

Professional Champion

# 16 6/3/2011 3:08:38 PM

Well, I'm gonna go against the grain here and say I like the idea. I've actually mentioned or suggested it in the past. They would have to increase the field dramatically, since there are a lot of really good players in all three categories.
I think the issue here would be that the PGA Tour players would be all offended if a woman or senior started beating their pants off. Their ego's won't let their little boys club get invaded like that.

The "Wendy's 3 Tour Challenge" is hardly a comparison by any stretch with what is being suggested here since it more like a scramble than a stroke play event.

I want to see "head to head" competition, from appropriate distances, on the same course, same conditions.

The Wendy's Challenge is nothing like a scramble. It is a stroke play event, with the cumulative scores determining the winner. There has been one recent change; each team throws out the highest score of each hole. Each team has had their share of wins over the years. And the PGA players have not refused to come back the following year because their ego's were hurt.

Check out the scoring averages of the three tours. Keep in mind the PGA Tour course setups are more difficult than the Champions Tour and LPGA setups. As much as I enjoy women's golf, they would not be competitive with the PGA Tour week in and week out.

Mike its still not head to head. Put the men on the tips, women on the whatever and senior on the whatever tees, and have them compete stroke play. When they do that and the women and senior can't keep up, Ill believe it. Until then its not apples to apples, its apples to hybrid oranges or something that happens in the Wendys challenge.

heartotexas

Professional Champion

# 17 6/3/2011 3:11:59 PM

One real big problem would be that the field from each level would be cut into a third of what it would normally be. Most of the guys on the tour fight from week to week just to be able to play anyways. This would just complicate things even more. They push to get every one through already and if the fields were larger, they would really be hurting to make up time from weather delays and stuff like that. I could see it only being done once or twice a year and they would prolly have to limit the field to invite only. And how the do the cut would be even more of a problem.

My suggestion in the past was to take the top 50 of each tour, that's a field of 150 which I think is about the same as day 1 of a PGA tour event field.

JohnBarree

Professional Champion

# 18 6/3/2011 5:40:12 PM

I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them.

MikeNomgi

Professional Champion

# 19 6/3/2011 7:43:33 PM

One real big problem would be that the field from each level would be cut into a third of what it would normally be. Most of the guys on the tour fight from week to week just to be able to play anyways. This would just complicate things even more. They push to get every one through already and if the fields were larger, they would really be hurting to make up time from weather delays and stuff like that. I could see it only being done once or twice a year and they would prolly have to limit the field to invite only. And how the do the cut would be even more of a problem.

My suggestion in the past was to take the top 50 of each tour, that's a field of 150 which I think is about the same as day 1 of a PGA tour event field.

Right. The typical non-invitational PGA Tour event field is 156.

MikeNomgi

Professional Champion

# 20 6/3/2011 7:55:07 PM

I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them.

Well, I've told many new golfers to forget about watching PGA Tour players to learn the game, but rather, watch the LPGA players. Most of us have the swing speed of a Paula Creamer than a Dustin Johnson. And remember; Annika's average swing speed when she was in her prime was 96 MPH and she averaged over 265 off the tee. A clubhead speed of 114 MPH does nothing for you if you make contact on the clubface an inch off the sweet spot. Tempo, baby. Tempo! And the girls sure have it. When my wife and I are paired up with men who we haven't played with before, they can't stop talking about how good her swing is. She's not long; 175-180 off the tee (swing speed about 85 mph), but almost always in the middle of the fairway with a 3 or 4 yard draw. And the tempo is just incredible.

Robert Premeaux Jr.

Professional Champion

# 21 6/3/2011 8:04:30 PM

Apples vs. oranges vs. pears?

That sounds fair.

LukeTuzinski

Professional Champion

# 22 6/3/2011 11:51:17 PM

I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them.

One of the main reasons I don't watch either of these on TV,is that the production values especially on LPGA events is absolutely atrocious. It's like watching an NFL game and then watching the local cable broadcast of high school football.

Robert Premeaux Jr.

Professional Champion

# 23 6/4/2011 12:19:28 AM

I really wish the Champions and the LPGA got more play on TV. Most golfers can learn from these players. I still think that the problem with the LPGA is alot of men don't like to watch women play a sport better than them.

One of the main reasons I don't watch either of these on TV,is that the production values especially on LPGA events is absolutely atrocious. It's like watching an NFL game and then watching the local cable broadcast of high school football.

No doubt. I actually enjoyed watching Paula Creamer win at Oakmont last year, and it was in part due to the fact that NBC had the A team doing the broadcast. It felt like real golf with those guys on the job.

That's the only LPGA broadcast I've watched in 23 years of watching golf on TV.

armygrunt47

Professional Champion

# 24 6/7/2011 2:36:02 PM

The PGA Tour has many daily fee courses at which it plays tournaments.

Cog Hill. Pebble Beach. TPC Sawgrass. Kapalua. Doral. The Greenbriar. La Quinta. Torrey Pines. TPC Scottsdale. PGA National. Innisbrook. Harbour Town. TPC Louisiana, and probably more.

That's a pretty good selection to choose from.

I don't think the TPC's or Kapalua are quite what I had in mind. Cog Hill, The Greenbriar, Turning Stone, come closer. I'm aware the tour plays on courses that are nominally "public". I was thinking more along the lines of a course perhaps without the prestige or the price tag of those you've mentioned. Of course, quite a few of the Nationwide events are held on this kind of course as well as many of the Open qualifiers. It wouldn't be an every week thing, but maybe let a few qualified courses bid for one slot a year. Or maybe let the public have a vote or nominate a local course.

The Turning Stone Resort tournament has been dropped. Too bad. It's a good course (The Atunyote). I've been meaning to get out there for a few days since it's only about 5 hours away. It's pricey though. I think it's $250 to play the Atunyote and $175 to $200 for the other three. And I almost always travel with my wife so it's cost times 2 per round.

Bethpage is the only "public" course that just about anyone can afford ($75 in-State, $150 out-State for weekends). Torrey Pines is $235 for out-State and $135 for in-County. Pebble is $495 (not including cart). And Pinehurst averages $320. Sure they are "public" but how public is it when most can't afford it? Of course these are some of the more prestigious courses but even most TPCs are $250+. This is why golf is not growing. Just too darn expensive.

And back to topic, I wouldn't want to watch a combined tour. But I do enjoy watching the ladies and the Seniors more sometimes because there are definitely a lot less "whiners" there. No need to see grown men complaining on TV. See enough of that on the weekends.

From my last check, Pinehurst was $176 and that was with a caddy.

armygrunt47

Professional Champion

# 25 6/7/2011 3:54:52 PM

From my last check, Pinehurst was $176 and that was with a caddy.

Really? I just checked the website and peak season was $385. Oh, and I'm only talking about Pine Hurst #2. The others do not host US Opens or other PGA tourneys from what I know.

I live less than an hour from the course. #2 and # 8 have hosted PGA tourneys. They may have went up after remodeling the course last year but I am pretty sure it was 176 because we were going to do a 3 day two night golf package and play #2, Tobacco RD, and Pine Needles.

OtterMan08

Legend

# 26 6/7/2011 4:04:28 PM

From my last check, Pinehurst was $176 and that was with a caddy.

Really? I just checked the website and peak season was $385. Oh, and I'm only talking about Pine Hurst #2. The others do not host US Opens or other PGA tourneys from what I know.

I live less than an hour from the course. #2 and # 8 have hosted PGA tourneys. They may have went up after remodeling the course last year but I am pretty sure it was 176 because we were going to do a 3 day two night golf package and play #2, Tobacco RD, and Pine Needles.

I have noticed that many resort style courses post an outrageous "day rate" but offer much better package rates. Kind of makes it difficult to compare "Apples to Apples". It's like "Yeah, we'll let you play, But... we'll make it easier if you stay here or buy the package deal or whatever".

COMMUNITY