Mental Mistake on Par 5s | USHandicap Classic

Gregory Schessler Professional Champion
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Lately I've been falling into a mental mistake on par 5s. The problem comes on the second shot. When I know you can't reach the green in two...and can hit any club in my bag to layup, more often than not I still grab the three wood. Why? Over the weekend, on a par 5 I hooked a three wood into a lake from 275 out. I scored an 8. On the next par 5 I layed up from 275 out. I stiffed a wedge to 10ft and was putting for birdie. If your 250yds to 275yds out...and a three wood just isn't going to get there what do you hit? Do you lay up at 125yds to 75yds? Or do you hit it as close to the green as you can and take you chances from there? There are a lot of positive to playing the layup. 1. Takes a double or worse completely out of play. 2.) Almost certaintly makes par adn with a good wedge provides a chance for birdie. 3.) A miss with an iron is much easier to get away with than the 3w. 4.) Makes the third shot a full swing rather than an uncomfortable half or three/quarter type of shot. The down side to laying up -- being father away from the hole and a better chance for a birdie. Any thoughts or advice.
Goynes42 Professional Champion
# 1 7/25/2011 11:17:33 PM
The answer is very simple. If you can't reach the green, then lay up to a yardage that you feel most comfortable hitting from. If you have a good 75-yard wedge dialed in, play to that. If you can't hit your wedges accurately enough, but you can hit a full shot from 150 yards well, then lay up to 150. The only other thing to consider is whether there is trouble around your intended layup spot. If there is, you may have to change strategies slightly. But 99% of the time, just lay up to a yardage that you know you can play well from.
armygrunt47 Professional Champion
# 2 7/26/2011 8:40:42 AM
If I get to a par 5 that I know I cant reach in two, then I usually play Irons through the entire hole. 3i off the tee and then something to get me inside 140, which is my 9i distance. Anything inside that and I am going at the pin and looking for a birdie. There is no reason to take un-needed risks when all they are going to do is put you in a bad situation. Lay up unless you know thay you can get there more times than not.
LindseyM Legend
# 3 7/26/2011 10:43:59 AM
gonna have to agree with Goynes. I have never went for it on a par5. I take two routes: get within wedge distance for my 3rd into the green or get within 8 iron distance. On ther other hand for some reason, I always try to go for it on a driveable par4 and ultimately I screw up each time. Risk/reward holes like that is better played safe with good course management.
cogolfer1 LowIndex
# 4 7/26/2011 11:03:20 AM
The answer is very simple. If you can't reach the green, then lay up to a yardage that you feel most comfortable hitting from. If you have a good 75-yard wedge dialed in, play to that. If you can't hit your wedges accurately enough, but you can hit a full shot from 150 yards well, then lay up to 150. The only other thing to consider is whether there is trouble around your intended layup spot. If there is, you may have to change strategies slightly. But 99% of the time, just lay up to a yardage that you know you can play well from. Agree, and Tim and I agreed that I'd do this for my game for my H.S tryouts in 2 weeks since the course would be so much longer than I'm used to. Unless I'm within 200 yards and can get to the green with 3 wood I lay up to 100 yards so I can hit P wedge in. Yesterday this worked to perfection, hit my drive on a Par 4 long and straight, but still had 210 left uphill with a huge bunker in front. Laid up to 90 yards, hit my P wedge and hit it 3 feet from the flag, made par. This obviously won't work as well every time, but it will work to perfection every so often.
Dandy Professional Champion
# 5 7/26/2011 1:18:30 PM
Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up....
BUCKNUT Legend
# 6 7/26/2011 3:11:57 PM
Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up.... that's right, lol..........no guts no glory
Slicer_1 Professional Champion
# 7 7/26/2011 5:42:54 PM
If I'm 250 or closer and there's no hazard I'll go for it. Other than that I lay up to 110ish. Sometimes it works sometimes not.
txgal72 Legend
# 8 7/26/2011 5:48:57 PM
I'm stubborn - i always pull the 3 wood out thinking just maybe today is when i get a good roll LOL
ParSeeker Legend
# 9 7/26/2011 6:45:41 PM
I know there is the "smart" thing to do and then there is what I end up doing sometimes. I let my play be the judge on any given day. If I'm playing well I may go for it, if I'm not I'll be more conservative. I have to admit that sometimes I ask myself "What would Phil do?" :)
Robert Premeaux Jr. Professional Champion
# 10 7/26/2011 9:18:55 PM
If I'm inside 250 and the shot into the green isn't a forced carry, I go for it unless the lie is terrible. If I'm inside 200, I go for it no matter what's in front of the green unless the lie is terrible. In virtually all other instances, I won't go for it. I try to lay up to 110 or less if possible or as close as I can get to that. I swear I went from an 8 to a 6 two years ago just by acting right on the par 5s. Instead of going for every single par-5 green in two, I started playing smarter shots and playing about half of the par 5s as three-shot holes, and instantly my scores got 2-4 strokes better. I've only made two eagles over the last two seasons, so trying to eagle every par 5 doesn't make sense.
Mark Simmons Legend
# 11 7/27/2011 1:00:35 AM
I'm with Goynes with two additional thoughts. 1. Just because you are within 3 wood range doesn't mean you should go for it, if the risk/reward isn't in your favor. Consider the trouble around the green and your likelihood of making it or getting in trouble before deciding whether to go for it or lay up. 2. If getting to your ideal lay up distance means using a club you aren't confident in hitting, consider going to a second choice lay up distance that allows you to use a club you are confident in hitting well.
DavyCrockett Professional Champion
# 12 7/27/2011 10:01:24 AM
Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up.... Yup, just make sure if you do miss it hit the side that will still allow you to get up and down.
BUCKNUT Legend
# 13 7/27/2011 10:08:13 AM
Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up.... Yup, just make sure if you do miss it hit the side that will still allow you to get up and down. I've hit many water's going for Eagles, 2 in drop 3 hit 4 close and still make a par. Eagles are worth 8 pts. in the blitz's I play in so them jokers are like gold, to valuable not to go for.
72Wannabe Legend
# 14 7/27/2011 11:08:09 AM
If I know I can't reach in 2 then what I do on the 2nd shot depends on several factors: 1) the layout of the hole - is there a hazard that I can reach with the 3 wood? If yes, then I grab the club that will definitely come up short of that and will leave a good yardage into the hole (105-110 yards). If no, then I'll hit the 3 wood anyway and rely on my short game. 2) the lie of the ball - if its in the fairway and a flat lie I hit the 3 wood (assuming there is no hazard as stated above), if the ball is above or below my feet I'll lay up. There is one exception to this for me and that is if the lie promotes the shot shape I want to hit, i.e. if the hole doglegs left and the ball is above my feet I may still hit the 3 wood with the sidehill lie promoting the draw. That's the thought process I go through....
bmoody16 Professional Champion
# 15 7/27/2011 11:30:52 AM
It depends on the hole, and your personal game. If the hole has a water hazard I would most likely lay up short of the hazard. If its merely bunkered I would go for it. Bunkers are no big deal. You need to figure out wedge distances, and lay up distances. For example. I played a bunch of rounds at Garden Valley Golf Club a few weeks back. #5 plays up hill with a small pond on the left near the green. I hit driver 3 or 4 iron to get myself to 70 yards. I know that I hit a 1/2 SW 70 yards, so I try to shoot for that yardage on my lay ups. I birdied that hole repeatedly all week. On the other hand #18 has no water close to the green, so I hit driver and 3 hybrid (18*) to put it up close to the hole so I could chip and put for a birdie. I had a terrible time driving on that hole, but I still judged my second shots appropriately. Play to your strengths. You really need to figure out your wedge distances and play to those spots if possible. Unfortunately, like I said it is all relative to the hole and your game.

Professional Champion

122 Views 58 Replies 8 Likes

Lately I've been falling into a mental mistake on par 5s. The problem comes on the second shot. When I know you can't reach the green in two...and can hit any club in my bag to layup, more often than not I still grab the three wood. Why? Over the weekend, on a par 5 I hooked a three wood into a lake from 275 out. I scored an 8. On the next par 5 I layed up from 275 out. I stiffed a wedge to 10ft and was putting for birdie.

If your 250yds to 275yds out...and a three wood just isn't going to get there what do you hit? Do you lay up at 125yds to 75yds? Or do you hit it as close to the green as you can and take you chances from there?

There are a lot of positive to playing the layup.
1. Takes a double or worse completely out of play.
2.) Almost certaintly makes par adn with a good wedge provides a chance for birdie.
3.) A miss with an iron is much easier to get away with than the 3w.
4.) Makes the third shot a full swing rather than an uncomfortable half or three/quarter type of shot.

The down side to laying up -- being father away from the hole and a better chance for a birdie.

Any thoughts or advice.

Goynes42

Professional Champion

# 1 7/25/2011 11:17:33 PM

The answer is very simple. If you can't reach the green, then lay up to a yardage that you feel most comfortable hitting from. If you have a good 75-yard wedge dialed in, play to that. If you can't hit your wedges accurately enough, but you can hit a full shot from 150 yards well, then lay up to 150.

The only other thing to consider is whether there is trouble around your intended layup spot. If there is, you may have to change strategies slightly. But 99% of the time, just lay up to a yardage that you know you can play well from.

armygrunt47

Professional Champion

# 2 7/26/2011 8:40:42 AM

If I get to a par 5 that I know I cant reach in two, then I usually play Irons through the entire hole. 3i off the tee and then something to get me inside 140, which is my 9i distance. Anything inside that and I am going at the pin and looking for a birdie. There is no reason to take un-needed risks when all they are going to do is put you in a bad situation. Lay up unless you know thay you can get there more times than not.

LindseyM

Legend

# 3 7/26/2011 10:43:59 AM

gonna have to agree with Goynes.
I have never went for it on a par5. I take two routes: get within wedge distance for my 3rd into the green or get within 8 iron distance.
On ther other hand for some reason, I always try to go for it on a driveable par4 and ultimately I screw up each time. Risk/reward holes like that is better played safe with good course management.

cogolfer1

LowIndex

# 4 7/26/2011 11:03:20 AM

The answer is very simple. If you can't reach the green, then lay up to a yardage that you feel most comfortable hitting from. If you have a good 75-yard wedge dialed in, play to that. If you can't hit your wedges accurately enough, but you can hit a full shot from 150 yards well, then lay up to 150.

The only other thing to consider is whether there is trouble around your intended layup spot. If there is, you may have to change strategies slightly. But 99% of the time, just lay up to a yardage that you know you can play well from.

Agree, and Tim and I agreed that I'd do this for my game for my H.S tryouts in 2 weeks since the course would be so much longer than I'm used to. Unless I'm within 200 yards and can get to the green with 3 wood I lay up to 100 yards so I can hit P wedge in. Yesterday this worked to perfection, hit my drive on a Par 4 long and straight, but still had 210 left uphill with a huge bunker in front. Laid up to 90 yards, hit my P wedge and hit it 3 feet from the flag, made par. This obviously won't work as well every time, but it will work to perfection every so often.

Dandy

Professional Champion

# 5 7/26/2011 1:18:30 PM

Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up....

BUCKNUT

Legend

# 6 7/26/2011 3:11:57 PM

Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up....

that's right, lol..........no guts no glory

Slicer_1

Professional Champion

# 7 7/26/2011 5:42:54 PM

If I'm 250 or closer and there's no hazard I'll go for it. Other than that I lay up to 110ish. Sometimes it works sometimes not.

txgal72

Legend

# 8 7/26/2011 5:48:57 PM

I'm stubborn - i always pull the 3 wood out thinking just maybe today is when i get a good roll LOL

ParSeeker

Legend

# 9 7/26/2011 6:45:41 PM

I know there is the "smart" thing to do and then there is what I end up doing sometimes. I let my play be the judge on any given day. If I'm playing well I may go for it, if I'm not I'll be more conservative. I have to admit that sometimes I ask myself "What would Phil do?" :)

Robert Premeaux Jr.

Professional Champion

# 10 7/26/2011 9:18:55 PM

If I'm inside 250 and the shot into the green isn't a forced carry, I go for it unless the lie is terrible.

If I'm inside 200, I go for it no matter what's in front of the green unless the lie is terrible.

In virtually all other instances, I won't go for it. I try to lay up to 110 or less if possible or as close as I can get to that.

I swear I went from an 8 to a 6 two years ago just by acting right on the par 5s. Instead of going for every single par-5 green in two, I started playing smarter shots and playing about half of the par 5s as three-shot holes, and instantly my scores got 2-4 strokes better. I've only made two eagles over the last two seasons, so trying to eagle every par 5 doesn't make sense.

Mark Simmons

Legend

# 11 7/27/2011 1:00:35 AM

I'm with Goynes with two additional thoughts.

1. Just because you are within 3 wood range doesn't mean you should go for it, if the risk/reward isn't in your favor. Consider the trouble around the green and your likelihood of making it or getting in trouble before deciding whether to go for it or lay up.

2. If getting to your ideal lay up distance means using a club you aren't confident in hitting, consider going to a second choice lay up distance that allows you to use a club you are confident in hitting well.

DavyCrockett

Professional Champion

# 12 7/27/2011 10:01:24 AM

Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up....

Yup, just make sure if you do miss it hit the side that will still allow you to get up and down.

BUCKNUT

Legend

# 13 7/27/2011 10:08:13 AM

Just go for it. Hard to make an eagle laying up....

Yup, just make sure if you do miss it hit the side that will still allow you to get up and down.

I've hit many water's going for Eagles, 2 in drop 3 hit 4 close and still make a par. Eagles are worth 8 pts. in the blitz's I play in so them jokers are like gold, to valuable not to go for.

72Wannabe

Legend

# 14 7/27/2011 11:08:09 AM

If I know I can't reach in 2 then what I do on the 2nd shot depends on several factors:

1) the layout of the hole - is there a hazard that I can reach with the 3 wood? If yes, then I grab the club that will definitely come up short of that and will leave a good yardage into the hole (105-110 yards). If no, then I'll hit the 3 wood anyway and rely on my short game.

2) the lie of the ball - if its in the fairway and a flat lie I hit the 3 wood (assuming there is no hazard as stated above), if the ball is above or below my feet I'll lay up. There is one exception to this for me and that is if the lie promotes the shot shape I want to hit, i.e. if the hole doglegs left and the ball is above my feet I may still hit the 3 wood with the sidehill lie promoting the draw.

That's the thought process I go through....

bmoody16

Professional Champion

# 15 7/27/2011 11:30:52 AM

It depends on the hole, and your personal game.

If the hole has a water hazard I would most likely lay up short of the hazard. If its merely bunkered I would go for it. Bunkers are no big deal.

You need to figure out wedge distances, and lay up distances. For example. I played a bunch of rounds at Garden Valley Golf Club a few weeks back. #5 plays up hill with a small pond on the left near the green. I hit driver 3 or 4 iron to get myself to 70 yards. I know that I hit a 1/2 SW 70 yards, so I try to shoot for that yardage on my lay ups. I birdied that hole repeatedly all week.

On the other hand #18 has no water close to the green, so I hit driver and 3 hybrid (18*) to put it up close to the hole so I could chip and put for a birdie. I had a terrible time driving on that hole, but I still judged my second shots appropriately.

Play to your strengths. You really need to figure out your wedge distances and play to those spots if possible. Unfortunately, like I said it is all relative to the hole and your game.

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