COMMUNITY

Community  /  Forums  /  Are you scratch? Really?
Are you scratch? Really?
ParSeeker
Legend
 
162 Views    28 Replies    1 Like   I like it!
Are you a scratch golfer? I definitely am not but I ask the question because I always associated scratch with a handicap of zero. In my opinion a zero handicap definitely deserves a lot of respect regardless of where they play. Even an easy course can be difficult to maintain a zero. But when I looked up what designates scratch in the eyes of the USGA it is not simply maintaining a zero handicap. The USGA defines a scratch golfer as “a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses." That seems like a pretty bold requirement. Your thoughts?
Pappy82nd
Professional Champion
 
# 1    1/26/2013 5:50:20 PM   
I am still trying to break 80. The only scratch I have to worry about is scratching my head every time I get close then fall apart. :-). I cannot imagine the quality level of play to reach scratch as the USGA has it defined. I always thought a 0 handicap was a scratch golfer also. Okay that said, back to breaking 80.


njgolfer
Legend
 
# 2    1/26/2013 5:56:20 PM   
Does owning a backscratcher count?


ParSeeker
Legend
 
# 3    1/26/2013 5:56:21 PM   

I am still trying to break 80. The only scratch I have to worry about is scratching my head every time I get close then fall apart. :-). I cannot imagine the quality level of play to reach scratch as the USGA has it defined. I always thought a 0 handicap was a scratch golfer also. Okay that said, back to breaking 80.


I can relate to that Pappy!


LyinLewis
Legend
 
# 4    1/26/2013 7:25:09 PM   
Wow did not know that. My lowest handicap was a .4, and it did not always translate to even par. By the USGA's standard I would say a scratch golfer would be around a +3 or +4.

By that standard I may never become a true Scratch golfer.


Don Freeman
Professional Champion
 
# 5    1/26/2013 7:36:02 PM   
I would guess it comes down to numbers. What about the Pros? Does averaging up all their scores divide to par? You would think that to be a Pro you would have to be a scratch golfer. Really? Have you opened the papers lately and seen the scores these "Pros" actually shoot? Especially when they miss the cuts? I have read/seen where even the best of the best, guys like Singh, Garcia, you name 'em, have scored 78s, even 80 or more. Thats 6 and 8 over on most courses. So do they balance that by shooting 6 or 8 under par an even amount of times? I think not. I would think that many pros are actually 2-4 handicappers. I would even bet that if you averaged all their numbers, very few of them would be even par or under.
One teaching pro I know told me recently that if a golfer had trouble going low, but could just shoot par every time out, he would end up high on the money winnings list. Assuming he would make most of the cuts, and finish in the money at even par. That someone couild make a comfortable living on the PGA tour by just shooting par every time.
OK. so sorry for the side track. But I figure if the pros are the best golfers out there, and if very few of them actually average par, then there are very few "scratch " golfers .
....and then there are other considerations. Things like slope and course rating that affect handicap........
Great question though.


Mark Simmons
Legend
 
# 6    1/26/2013 7:43:13 PM   
Most of the past year my handicap has been hovering between 0.5 and 0.9 and I do not consider myself a scratch golfer. I aspire to being a scratch golfer, but will only claim I've obtained that if I can achieve and maintain a handicap of 0 to + something playing a variety of courses.

I think there are a couple of things to point out from the USGA's statement. “a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses."

The first is "Course Handicap". More difficult courses may have a course handicap of 74, 75 or higher, even though par is defined as 72 or less. Easier courses may show the same par value, but have a Course Handicap of 66 or 67.

The second thing I'd like to point out is the word "can". Handicap is all about playing potential. Saying someone "can" play to a Course Handicap of zero is different than saying that player 'will' play to a Course Handicap of zero every time out. In fact, a player with a handicap index of zero should be expected to meet or best a Course Handicap less than 25% of the time.


armygrunt47
Professional Champion
 
# 7    1/26/2013 8:22:12 PM   
I dont remember exactly where I read it but scratch is equivalent to the better half of the field at the US Amateur. One year it might be 0 and the next it might be +4. It just depends on the strength of the field.


armygrunt47
Professional Champion
 
# 8    1/26/2013 8:28:40 PM   
And because of course ratings, if you actually gave most PGA pros a hdcp they would be from +6 to +11 depending on how well they have actually been playing over the past month or two.


keith day
Professional Champion
 
# 9    1/26/2013 8:37:46 PM   

And because of course ratings, if you actually gave most PGA pros a hdcp they would be from +6 to +11 depending on how well they have actually been playing over the past month or two.


how are u figuring that????????? Mark explained it perfect.


armygrunt47
Professional Champion
 
# 10    1/26/2013 9:06:06 PM   


And because of course ratings, if you actually gave most PGA pros a hdcp they would be from +6 to +11 depending on how well they have actually been playing over the past month or two.


how are u figuring that????????? Mark explained it perfect.


The ratings of the courses that they play are 74+ and slopes are140+. Some of those guys have a scoring average of 3 to 4 under par. Then you have to remember that you hdcp is your potential and not your average so that right there would put them at +6 easily.


JayPet
Legend
 
# 11    1/26/2013 9:19:53 PM   
Don't confuse a handicap rating and an index. There is a factor that is considered when determining a true handicap which is how a person plays their particular home course and how that same player plays all other courses.

Scratch is playing to a zero rating or index to all Course ratings. The true score on a course is the Course rating if you are scratch. You may shoot par on a par 72 but the Course rating may be a 69.1, which means you actually shot 3 over.

Even if you are rated as a 1 or 2, you can be pretty far from scratch.


Mark Simmons
Legend
 
# 12    1/26/2013 9:21:11 PM   
And because of course ratings, if you actually gave most PGA pros a hdcp they would be from +6 to +11 depending on how well they have actually been playing over the past month or two.


how are u figuring that????????? Mark explained it perfect.

I appreciate the kudos, but I believe ArmyGrunt is correct as well. Here is the missing piece.

When a PGA event is held the host site always does a lot to toughen up the course. They lengthen the course by putting them at the back of the back tee boxes, or creating new tee boxes even further back. They narrow the fairways, let the rough grow out. They speed up the greens, and so on. Thus the published Course Rating is not correct. Now they don't have the USGA re-rate the course, because they aren't using handicap for PGA events anyway, but if they did, you'd see some eye-popping numbers!


armygrunt47
Professional Champion
 
# 13    1/26/2013 9:25:25 PM   
I did some research and at Islesworth in 2006 they actually kept the numbers for Tiger. He was a +8.7 with a rating of 77.5 and slope of 142.


cogolfer1
LowIndex
 
# 14    1/26/2013 10:42:23 PM   
1.4 defines scratch IMO because you can try your hand at US Open qualifying with that number.


Robert Premeaux Jr.
Professional Champion
 
# 15    1/27/2013 12:05:37 AM   
I don't use the term "scratch" and generally dislike it. Lots of people use it lots of the time, and it ends up being meaningless because it gets used to describe several different levels of play.

Tell me your handicap index. I know what that means.


  • 1
  • 2