COMMUNITY

I am 52, 5'11", 220lbs.
I understand many of the concepts of the golf swing and am learning how to incorporate those concepts into my own swing. I started golfing while in HS in 1977 but knew nothing of the "swing" or that it could actually be changed entirely until about 1990. I've never taken a formal lesson from a PGA Pro and although I uptake information from many origins, I have been "learning" from Hank Haney's books for about 2 years and try not to "confuse" my swing training with conflicting concepts. I hit for about 30 mins everyday at lunch, sometimes after work if it's early enough; about 2 hrs per week or 2.36 hrs of practice per round played (yes I track EVERYTHING).
I share this to give someone willing to offer meaningful comment enough information to make a more educated response.

My thoughts. Unless you find a new driver that you hit straight every time and is 10 yards longer every time, don't waste your money.
Here is what I just did. I went to an outdoor demo day at my range and I swung the RBZ driver, the R-11, the Callaway fit, and a Nike. All on the launch monitor. Then I went a few days later to Golf Galaxy and hit several different grivers, as well as my own Callaway FT-9. I can tell you honestly I was trying to get as much swing speed as I could. The results were that with every driver both at the range and in the store, my swing speed was 104-105. And all the distances were very close. THEN, I swung the Callaway RAZR Tour. It is last years model but new to me. I have had the Callaway FT-9 for 3 years. The difference was obvious right away. My average swing speed was 110 and a few hits were over 112. The monitor showed my carry being about 10-15 yards farther and roll out about the same. End result was a consistently longer drive. And my pulls went away because the Razr Hawk Tour is set with a 1 degree open face. Now I drive the ball consistently 285 up to over 300 with a slight power fade.
Sorry for the long rant. Bottom line for me was the RBZ is just hype. Yes, the 3 wood does go longer than my 3 wood, but not the driver. Try what I did. Find a driver that has a faster swing speed and you will be happy with the results. Good luck with whatever you decide.

The RBZ driver is the new superfast, no real big gains there. The 3 wood is def a difference. I hit my superfast 2.0 3w about 260, w/ the RBZ 3w it's 285. It's sweet off the deck. Def use the facilities launch monitors to compare for swing speed, launch angles for woods, and see if you can get an idea on gapping. That'd be important in considering new irons. I carry 5 - PW of the Tmade MC's bent 1 degree strong and gapping is 10 yards from 5i: 215/220 to PW: 145/150, and about 10-15 yard gaps down the gap, sand, lob wedges.

it depends what you practice on? I am by no means a pga pro, but have been playing for 22 years, starting when i was 10. practicing w/ purpose is very important. if you enjoy keeping the stats, as i do, you can concentrate efforts on weaknesses. i have learned that putting & short game (for me at least) is where the concerted effort needs to be, and that's where i focus practice. i read stan utley's books on the art of scoring and he gave even more ideas on what to keep track of, on grading chip results, putt distances made, etc. it's def worth a read, some is boring, but other parts are interesting.

Whoa!!!, first of all my best Air Force buddy was named Don Freeman. Donald E. Freeman from Oklahoma, a Native American dude that would be about 53 right now.

Anyway, I'm listening...looking at more comments. Thank You!

Why???

I'm serious. I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with any of these choices. From your description, you should be investing in the player, not the tool.

Your equipment is plenty good to get to the next level, it's the player that needs improving. With your stats and other information I have every reason to believe that you could become a single-digit handicap player. But it won't happen through equipment change, it will happen by improving your skill level.

Just so you know it can be done.

You and I hit the ball the same distance (driver stats are within 10 yards of each other). I'm 3 years older than you. I'm still playing that Callaway FT-i driver you abandoned three generations back. My irons are 20 year old Mizuno MP-19 irons. ...and I'm a 2-handicap.

Changing equipment constantly is a real distraction. Learn to make consistent solid contact with any of your sticks, work on your short game and course management and you can reach this goal. I know the other low handicap players on this site will tell you the same thing. Plus there are several that deposit their pearls of wisdom on this site on a regular basis and we all benefit.

Stick around and work on your game. You can do it!

Excellent comments Mark. I was kinda looking for the "devil's advocate" I guess. I'm not looking for an equipment "quick fix" but I won't pass up a serious equipment improvement either.

In support of the spirit of your comments, I fully agree that the primary area of focus should always be the player him/herself. For the person bitten by the golf bug, the equipment is usually dictated by what you're willing to pay for it. To my point, I'll buy a driver that I think is different enough to make real improvement, but will always buy the "Neutral" version. I don't think using a "gimmick" to completely offset a swing flaw is really "playing the game." If I buy a set of clubs that are setup to yield, let's say a 20% distance improvement, and I use the same old lame swing, I'm just going to be 20% deeper in the bush.

I see that Adams is using a similar slot and that's what prompted me to wonder if this was a valid improvement of which to take advantage, or just another "now thang" that no one will remember in a year.

Thanks again for the comments.

I changed my entire bag driver to sand wedge when the RBZ came out. I did it slowly as to not trash my game. First thing I swapped out my Callaway Diablo 3 wood, 5 wood, 4 hybrid for a RBZ 3 WOOD, 3 Hybrid and 4 hybrid. After I got used to them I got my driver. Oh and by the way I gained 20 yards or more with my RBZ 3 wood. Old one I hit 200-210, the RBZ I hit 220-235. I gained similar yardage with the hybrids. I opted for the R11S driver. I hit both and the RBZ driver shaft is longer than my current, Big Bertha Diablo, and I had trouble hitting it. I also liked the tuning on the R11S. A hint here. I had it tuned at the store and got different results on the course and the range. I think after 5 weeks I finally have it right (It eliminated my slice). I wanted to try the irons before I bought them and swung the RBZ 6 iron and hit it 10 yards farther than my X-22. "SOLD" I got 5 iron to SW. A note here I am a lefty and there was not a 5 Hybrid for a lefty. If there was I would have that in the bag. The RBZ hybrids are as good as the RBZ woods. I hit the 3 HYBRID 200 yards and it is easier than a fairway wood for to hit for me, that is why I skipped the RBZ 5 wood.
I am very happy with the change and have dropped 2 or 3 strokes a round since the change

That's a smart way to introduce a new set. One or two clubs at a time.

Well put!!
99% pro or trainers, most of them will tell you, there is no equipement for the last 20 years that's gonna help. All hype? But they could be wrong.

Don't thinkf I agree with the 20 years no equipment improvement. I don't think there has EVER been a piece of equipment that would make or break anyone's golf game, the secret is still in the dirt as Hogan says. BUT, I think there have been improvements from clubs to balls to shoes to training aids and Budweiser Cheladas, all of which either improve the results of a poor swing or, in the case of the Cheladas, preclude you from caring enough to get too bent out of shape. I don't consider myself an equipment chasing fanatic, but I'm all about getting more out of the swing I have now as I continue to improve it the traditional way....playing in the dirt...

Balls, drivers and hybrids certainly have improved significantly over that time. (Did we even have hybrids 20 years ago?)

30 years ago, we all used to play with balls that (relative to today) felt like hitting a rock and yet you could put a smile on them with a single swing. Broken covers were common. Most experts see golf ball technology as the biggest contributor to distance increases.

Big Bertha's 20 year anniversary was celebrated LAST YEAR.

Graphite shafts didn't garner widespread use until the mid-1990s.

On the other hand, there were some fine players irons produced 20 years ago and longer as has been discussed by many on this board.

Shoe, I can understand why you might want to change your woods. If a new product gets you consistently 10 extra yards (and by consistently, I mean past the "honeymoon" period), then it's probably worth purchasing if that's what you're interested in.

But please, LEAVE YOUR IRONS IN THE BAG.

Look. Irons have not changed in basic design since about 1985. A cavity back is still a cavity back, and a blade is still a blade.

One thing that HAS changed, however, are the lofts. I've posted on this before on my thread about lofts and lie angles...you should give that one a read. But here's the deal. Cavity back clubs have a heavier sole, and thus are able to launch the ball higher with the same loft. So clubmakers really started jacking their lofts up so that customers felt like they were hitting this new set of irons farther than ever before. Little did they realize, all they paid $1000 for was for the club company to write different numbers on the soles of their clubs.

Let me explain. I did some looking, and came up with the factory lofts for your X-22s.

3i - 21*
4i - 24*
5i - 27*
6i - 30*
7i - 33*
8i - 37*
9i - 41*
P - 45*

Now here's the RBZ irons' lofts.

4i - 20*
5i - 23*
6i - 26.5*
7i - 30.5*
8i - 35*
9i - 40*
P - 45*

Do you see what they did there? Their 4 iron is lofted stronger than your 3 iron! The only club that is the same loft as your current clubs is the PW. Plain and simple, that is the ONLY reason why the RBZ irons go any farther. Here's another thing. A lot of people find their long irons--usually their 3 and 4 irons--hard to hit because there is very little loft. So hybrids present an easy way to get the ball in the air. But look...if you have trouble hitting YOUR 3 and 4 irons, then you will likely have the same trouble hitting the RBZ 4 and 5 iron. So you will be tempted to buy some hybrids to replace them. If you end up with the hybrids, that means you've wasted about $200 on that 4 and 5 iron.

Want some REAL perspective? Here are my lofts. These are pretty much "standard" lofts from around 1990. My irons are newer blades, from about 2007, but I had them bent to these lofts. Compare them to the RBZs...you'll see what's happening here.

2i - 20*
3i - 23*
4i - 26*
5i - 29*
6i - 32*
7i - 36*
8i - 40*
9i - 45*
P - 49*

Now look at that. The RBZ 4 iron is my 2 iron. Can you believe that? That's all they've done...they took an old 2 iron and stamped "4" on the sole. The upper end of the RBZ set is a full two clubs longer than the old standard. Assuming we swung at the same speed, I'd be using a 4 iron to your 6 iron. Now you might say "Well I'll take the 6 iron!" But remember, all the RBZ 6 iron is, is just a 4 iron. Same loft as mine.

I can guarantee you, you would have no problem hitting my blades because they have so much more loft than modern clubs. ESPECIALLY my long irons. You would be surprised! You can look down at my 3 iron and actually see some loft there. So what if I have to take an extra club or two into the green? I also don't need a gap wedge, so there's another chunk of money saved.

Just trying to drop a truth bomb on ya there buddy.

Gosh it was good to hear from you Tim.

I'm just a little frustrated with the bottleneck from my 4 iron and/or 4H to the driver. I love my X-22s and I've ranged them on a rolling FIFO yardage since I got them a couple of years ago.

I can crunch my 5w past my driver & 3W sometimes. I hit my 3H 220 off the tee the last time I played 3 Eagles. I am very comfortable with my irons... it would seem that I have something fundamentally inconsistent with my woods/driver swing.

My "best" swings are right in line with the yardages that flow up the line, but my "averages" suck. There are just too many hits that are off center enough to make the averages sink.

So I think all this means is that I still follow and have faith in the path that we discussed a couple of years ago. I learned so much about the dynamics of the swing, how my aging and fitness affect my game, and to [always] start at the basic fundamentals and work up from there when examining swing dynamics. I'm trying to get away from so much detailed analysis and relate more to the "feeling" of a successful motion.

I think the only reason the drive one 270 and the next 185 is an inconsistent swing yielding inconsistent contact upon the face. I'm sure that I'll stick with my Callaways, we're comfortable together, and from what you've said, that I totally agree with, is that the only thing that I'll accomplish by switching clubs is sliding my yardage scale upward. So what does that leave? A gap of yardages that are all below the full swing of my LW. I just want to get my yardages to flow upward from 5 iron upward. I have the whole gammot of clubs from there upward and put what seems to be the best idea in my bag depending on the course.

From your posted statistics, you have an issue with the driver.
Understand when we age, each year is a new adventure with losing distance and other issues.
However, your number on the driver does not match up with all the other clubs in your bag. You should carry at least 230-240 from your other numbers.

My advise to you is to have someone knowledgeable look at your swing first before you even think of changing the driver. A couple of lessons and look for new equipment toward the end of the season when price is lower.