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Asking "What do you lie?"
Nikhil Nayak
Professional Champion
 
196 Views    40 Replies    10 Likes   I like it!

I was wondering if its standard practice to announce how many strokes you've taken when you walk onto the green at every hole. We usually ask each other "What do you lie" as we reach the green.

Today on a par 4 we had a player who was lying 5 on the green but did not declare his strokes. The rest of us assumed he was on in 3. If we had known that he was already 5 strokes down we would have putted differently.

How does it work on Tour? Are players obliged to declare what they lie when they reach the putting green? What about amateur tournament rules?
BUCKNUT
Legend
 
# 1    8/31/2011 8:59:30 AM   
I've never been asked this


MikeNomgi
Professional Champion
 
# 2    8/31/2011 9:07:51 AM   
In match play, no one is obligated to announce what they lie. However, if asked by an opponent, they must answer truthfully. If someone was lying three but deliberately answered four in an attempt to influence your next stroke, they lose the hole.

I know of no requirement in the rules which requires you to inform your playing companion what you are lying in medal play.


Steven Mitchell
Professional Champion
 
# 3    8/31/2011 9:08:50 AM   
9-2. Match Play
a. Information as to Strokes Taken
An opponent is entitled to ascertain from the player, during the play of a hole, the number of strokes he has taken and, after play of a hole, the number of strokes taken on the hole just completed.
b. Wrong Information
A player must not give wrong information to his opponent. If a player gives wrong information,
he loses the hole.
A player is deemed to have given wrong information if he:
(i) fails to inform his opponent as soon as practicable that he has incurred a penalty, unless (a) he was obviously proceeding under a Rule involving a penalty and this was observed by his opponent, or (b) he corrects the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke; or
(ii) gives incorrect information during play of a hole regarding the number of strokes taken and does not correct the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke; or
(iii) gives incorrect information regarding the number of strokes taken to complete a hole and this affects the opponent's understanding of the result of the hole, unless he corrects the mistake before any player makes a stroke from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players leave the putting green.
A player has given wrong information even if it is due to the failure to include a penalty that he did not know he had incurred. It is the player's responsibility to know the Rules.


Steven Mitchell
Professional Champion
 
# 4    8/31/2011 9:11:17 AM   
there is no rule about this question in stroke play.


gsollars
LowIndex
 
# 5    8/31/2011 9:34:06 AM   
The rule book talks about a "marker" keeping track of scores, not the individuals. In stroke play, you don't need to know your playing competitor's score. You're not playing against him specifically. In match play you have to tell each other your score after each hole so that you can know the state of the match.

But if you didn't have a "marker," and you were in a stroke play tournament you would exchange scorecards and keep each other's score. That's how we did it in our local tournaments with the HAGA. Since your competitor is keeping your score, it's up to you to keep your own score separately; and after the last hole, verify that he has written down your correct score for each hole. Remember, the penalty for an error can be as high as disqualification.

In your situation, I would guess that it's up to you to either ask or for your group to stipulate a requirement that you each tell each other your score as you reach the green.


PISC
Legend
 
# 6    8/31/2011 10:08:28 AM   
Is it really that important? If playing for money then I quess so, other then that have fun enjoy the game.


72Wannabe
Legend
 
# 7    8/31/2011 10:48:27 AM   
If I'm playing with a stranger I will never ask how many strokes he's taken.

When playing with my regular group I can guarantee you we already know how many strokes each other has taken because of how competitive we are with each other.


MikeNomgi
Professional Champion
 
# 8    8/31/2011 10:55:51 AM   

If I'm playing with a stranger I will never ask how many strokes he's taken.

When playing with my regular group I can guarantee you we already know how many strokes each other has taken because of how competitive we are with each other.


Same here, William.


Duckhunter
Legend
 
# 9    8/31/2011 11:51:52 AM   
I only say if I'm asked


Timothyjack
Professional Champion
 
# 10    8/31/2011 11:55:35 AM   
Me and my playing partners always call out our strokes on the green. We are extremely competitive. I notice that sometimes its not that people lie about strokes, sometimes, they just forget a duffed pitch and call it 4 instead of 5. I have before. Thats why I cal it out. If they remember something different, they remind me of the stroke I am missing. I think calling it once you are on the green helps keep people honest more than modifying how I play.


Racer888
Legend
 
# 11    8/31/2011 11:59:13 AM   
Like everyone has said in match play you must answer if asked but in stroke play it doesn't matter. I am curious though how that would have changed how the rest of you putted that hole?? Are you saying you wouldn't have tried to make the putt?? You would have deliberately done something else??


Duckhunter
Legend
 
# 12    8/31/2011 1:29:07 PM   

Me and my playing partners always call out our strokes on the green. We are extremely competitive. I notice that sometimes its not that people lie about strokes, sometimes, they just forget a duffed pitch and call it 4 instead of 5. I have before. Thats why I cal it out. If they remember something different, they remind me of the stroke I am missing. I think calling it once you are on the green helps keep people honest more than modifying how I play.


We say our scores after the hole is over to keep each other in check and a shot is not forgot.


Timothyjack
Professional Champion
 
# 13    8/31/2011 2:01:08 PM   


Me and my playing partners always call out our strokes on the green. We are extremely competitive. I notice that sometimes its not that people lie about strokes, sometimes, they just forget a duffed pitch and call it 4 instead of 5. I have before. Thats why I cal it out. If they remember something different, they remind me of the stroke I am missing. I think calling it once you are on the green helps keep people honest more than modifying how I play.


We say our scores after the hole is over to keep each other in check and a shot is not forgot.


We are way too competitive. We all score about the same so we usually want to know before we putt. Lets us know if we need try to hole the putt to take the lead or just an easy 2 putt to finish the hole. I know it sounds silly, and it is.


BUCKNUT
Legend
 
# 14    8/31/2011 2:36:20 PM   



Me and my playing partners always call out our strokes on the green. We are extremely competitive. I notice that sometimes its not that people lie about strokes, sometimes, they just forget a duffed pitch and call it 4 instead of 5. I have before. Thats why I cal it out. If they remember something different, they remind me of the stroke I am missing. I think calling it once you are on the green helps keep people honest more than modifying how I play.


We say our scores after the hole is over to keep each other in check and a shot is not forgot.


We are way too competitive. We all score about the same so we usually want to know before we putt. Lets us know if we need try to hole the putt to take the lead or just an easy 2 putt to finish the hole. I know it sounds silly, and it is.


That would drive me ape$hit!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you play furthest out goes first it's not that hard to keep track of. I'm trying to think about wether I need to hit a fade, draw, low punch, smooth 7-iron, full 8-iron. Not wether or not Bob is laying 3 hitting 4, Tim is laying 4 hitting 3, Jeff is on in 2 putting for birdie. I don't like to lose either, but I'm more of the type of person to just go and play, add em' up at the end of the round and see what we got. If I have to worry about Bob, Tim, or Jeff cheating me of a stroke or 2 I don't need to be and wont be playing with them anymore.


JeremyK
Professional Champion
 
# 15    8/31/2011 2:37:39 PM   
I have enough problems with my own strokes to worry about anyone else’s, but if money was involved or in some kind of tournament then it might make more sense to know.

If all else fails always play to win!!!


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